Are We Talking about the Same Christ?
This is a series of points I arranged for a sermon I preached 4/13/15. I wanted to make the sources available to whoever might want to learn more of what I had to say. The real question I want to address is this: do all religions that talk about Christ actually serve the same Jesus? The Bible talks extensively about the Messiah, and talks about Christ (Jesus) being the same as Jehovah from the Old Testament. So how do different groups measure up?
2 Cor. 11:1-15, Jude warn of false preachers,
bringing false doctrines, and false Christs.
Mk. 13:22-23 – false Christs and Prophets shall come
Mk. 13:22-23 – false Christs and Prophets shall come
Ø
Catholic
view of Christ
o
“Oh how great is the priest! . . . If he
realized what he is, he would die . . . God obeys him: he utters a few words
and the Lord descends from Heaven at his voice, to be contained within a small
host. Without the sacrament of Holy Orders, we would not have the Lord. Who put
him there in that tabernacle? The priest. Who welcomed your soul at the
beginning of life? The priest. Who feeds your soul and gives it strength for
the journey? The priest. Who will prepare it to appear before God, bathing it
one last time in the blood of Jesus Christ? The priest -- always the priest.
And if the soul should happen to die (as a result of sin) who will raise it up,
who will restore its calm and peace? Again the priest. After God, the priest is
everything! Only in heaven will he fully realize what he is” [1]
o
"Of what sublime dignity is the office of
the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the
vicegerent of Christ on earth! He continues the essential ministry of Christ;
he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he pardons the penitent
sinner with the power of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of
adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the
name which spiritual writers are especially found of applying to the priest is
that of 'alter Christus.' For the priest is and should be another Christ" [2]
o
Root of problem – deny Sola Scriptura - that Scripture is our only source for faith and
practice.[3] They claim that you need the traditions of
“the church” and the teachings and interpretations of it to understand
Scripture. [4]
o
Sufficiency problem solved: Heb 10: 1-20 –
sacrificed once, for all, all-sufficient.
§
– see also 1 Tim. 2:5; Acts. 4:12; Heb. 7:24-25;
Heb. 9:28; Heb. 10:10; John 14:6
o
Jesus, known in Muslim theology as ’Isa, is basically a walking apologetic
for monotheism. He comes out of the womb
practically preaching.
o
Never died on the cross – Surah 4:157
§
Some verses outside that seem to have Jesus
talking about his death (Surah 19:33) – Surah 19: 27-29 has him speaking as a
baby, 30-33 had him defending his mother from accusations of adultery, 34-37
denies that he was the son of God (because Allah is above having a son)
o
Just a messenger – Surah 43:57-65 – ayah
64 says “Allah is my Lord and your Lord.
So worship Him. This is a
straight path.” Ayah 59 “He [Jesus] is
nothing but a slave whom We [Allah] made an example for the Children of Israel.
§
He is NOT the savior, the lord, or anything more
to the people of Israel.
§
One of the hadith has Mohammed saying this “Then
I shall intercede and He will set me a limit [as to the number of people], so I
shall admit them into Paradise. Then I
shall return to Him, and when I shall see my Lord [I shall bow down] as before. Then I shall intercede and He will set me a
limit [as to the number of people]. So I
shall admit them into Paradise.[6]
– no sin is mentioned of Christ’s as people go to various prophets to seek
forgiveness… so the Qur’an seems to think of Christ as sinless, etc… but it
gets the salvation aspect totally wrong.
o
Salvation problem solved
§
Acts 4:12 – Jesus is the only way to be saved.
·
Some examples…
·
John 5:25, John 10:36, 11:4, 17:1
·
Mark 14:61-62
·
Matthew 11:27
·
John 8:58-59
·
Luke 3:21-22
§
JOHN 1:1-14, 20:31 (for some of the most
important ones)
Ø
Mormon
view of Christ
§
“Latter-day Saints believe that the simplest
reading of the New Testament text produces the simplest conclusion — that the
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are separate and distinct personages, that
They are one in purpose. We feel that the sheer preponderance of references in
the Bible would lead an uninformed reader to the understanding that God the
Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are separate beings. That is, one must
look to the third- and fourth-century Christian church, not to the New
Testament itself, to make a strong case for the Trinity.”[9]
§
This is the same heresy that cropped up in the
300s, when a bishop named Arius tried to make the case that Jesus was different
in essence from God the father. While we
wouldn’t necessarily agree with all the conclusions of the Council of Nicaea in
325, the belief that God the father, son, and Holy Spirit are three-in-one is
clearly laid out in Scripture. They are
one in essence – equally God.
§
If you get deep enough in Mormon theology, you
learn that God the Father is producing Spirit children[10]
– of whom we are.[11] Jesus just happened to be the first – so the
relationship between Jesus and God the Father is not eternal.[12]
o
View of salvation: We have to work, too
§
"For we labor diligently to write, to
persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be
reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all
we can do,"[13]
§
Spencer W. Kimball said: "Being perfect means to triumph over sin.
This is a mandate from the Lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never
require anything from his children which was not for their benefit and which
was not attainable. Perfection therefore is an achievable goal."[14]
o
Problem solved:
Jesus is co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit
o
Salvation
problem solved:
§
Think of how we responded to the Catholic
teaching – Jesus finished the job.
Hebrews 10.
Ø
Liberal
view of Christ
o
Christ is just about love, that’s it.
·
“The Jesus I know, love, talk about and choose
to retain was a radical, freedom-loving, justice-seeking, potentially queer
(because he was either asexual or a priest married to a prostitute), feminist
healer, unimpressed by scripture-quoters and religious law-keepers, seduced
neither by power nor evil.”[18]
§
Others will regularly bash “rules” and say that
that’s the problem with Christianity today.
·
First, I want to examine a passage Matthew 16:5-12 – beware of the doctrine of
the Pharisees and Saducees.
o
Saducees were equivalent to modern-day liberals
– they had accepted and coopted Greek culture
o
Pharisees were hyper-conservatives that put
their own opinion (the mishna, a collection of oral traditions) above the
Bible, or on equal footing… honestly, a lot like some Catholics get with
“church traditions”)
§
Anyone who teaches you that you can earn God’s
favor by keeping a set of rules
§
Legalism
o
“Rule” problem solved.
§
1 Peter 1:13-16 – “Be ye holy, for I am holy”,
Hebrews 12:14-17 – certain sins that can creep up on us, and there are times we
can’t repent from them. (probably addressing the lost, who came near to
salvation but never actually accepted it)
[1] (St.
John Vianney). TP - See more at: https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Article/TabId/535/ArtMID/13567/ArticleID/8029/Priest-Alter-Christus.aspx#sthash.oSCclSMY.dpuf
[2]
(Faith of Millions, John O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., 268-269, "nihil
obstat" by Rev. T. E. Dillon-Censor Librorum and "imprimatur" by
John Francis Noll, D.D. -Bishop of Fort Wayne).
[3]
See http://www.bible.ca/cath-bible-attitude-towards.htm
for a further discussion on how Catholics deny Sola Scriptura
[4]
For a discussion of “nihil obstat,” and “Faith of Millions,” as well as a list
of these verses, see http://www.1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/mfaith.html
[5]
What Every Christian Needs to Know about the Qur’an, White, p. 105
[6] Hadith Qudsi, quoted in WECKAQ, p
123-125
[7] http://www.answering-islam.org/BibleCom/sonofgod.html
[8] http://www.mrm.org/god-of-mormonism
for detailed examination of Mormon teaching on origins of God.
[9] http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ
[10]
Some Mormons have tried to distance themselves from the “god of your own
planet” schtick. See http://www.mrm.org/spirit-children-and-planets
for more info. For the “refutation,” see
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23592.
[11]
For further discussion on the Trinity, see Sunday school lesson – 4/12/15
CIBC-Tilton, Mike Wareing. See also
Joseph Smith’s translation of the “Book of Abraham,” which discusses a star or
planet named Kolob. [https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng]
[12] https://carm.org/hinckley-says-mormons-believe-different-jesus
[13] 2
Nephi 25:23, see also, https://carm.org/striving-for-perfection
[14]
Very similar to the views of Pelagius in the 4-5th centuries, who
had extensive debate over this issue with Augustine – though we wouldn’t
necessarily hold to all of what Augustine said on the matter, either.
[15] http://confessingbaptist.com/jesus-is-god-list-of-bible-verses-james-whites-the-forgotten-trinity-droakley1689/
for more complete list of verses, see here.
[16] http://www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/1john5n7.html#patristics
for more info on validity of this passage in Scripture – as it is one of the
most hotly-contested passages in the Bible.
[17]
Not to be construed as a universal liberal view of Christ… just an example.
[18] http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/04/08/college-prof-doubles-down-after-declaring-that-christ-was-potentially-queer-and-bigots-invented-a-white-supremacist-jesus/
ReplyDelete" As this Jesus was not a god, but an ordinary mortal man,
probably gay, anything that has been invented and founded in his name,
no matter how nice it may sound has no legitimacy, credibility and truth attached to it.
Take away the fake miracles attributed to Jesus,
take away the church invented fake saints
and their fake invented church miracles,
all the Christian theology comes crumbling down, leaving Christianity and the Church completely naked.
Christianity is founded on the Jewish invented God known as yahweh and everything else about Jesus was invented
by SAUL the Jewish man known as the Apostle Paul and the Church Fathers.
Let us face the truth.
The apostle Paul (Jewish man SAUL who never ever met Jesus) and the Church Fathers,
invented and created the huge theology, dogma, story and rules etc....around Jesus the religious figure.
Also the Roman Empire participated in the invention of the Christian religion.
It was this empire that financially and in every other way possible
supported the creation of the Church and its religion
as it sought to have a religion (a weapon) in which to be able to control the masses of people
from the many various nationalities in its empire.
The Christianity it assisted in creating was the ideal weapon for the empire to achieve its goal.
(Christianity teaches people to turn the other cheek, do not ask for very much in the today as you will be rewarded in the afterlife in a "Heaven - Paradise" with an everlasting life etc.)
That is why it so brutally then went out of its way to force this religion on to all the people of the empire.
Thus from this religion creating the "one People - one religion system"
and all loyal to the emperor and the empire.
Throughout history the Church has always stood by the side of the ruling establishment
....controlling the masses for the establishment....a great partnership for the benefit of both.
That is also why in later years the colonial rulers all over the world forced the Christian religion
on to the native peoples of their colonies.
We have all heard of the expression whereby the natives say " they gave us a book and told us to close our eyes
and pray,
when we opened our eyes we had the book
and they had all the land ".
So what did this gay Jesus actually achieve on a personal level?!
Jesus achieved absolutely nothing!"
However,
.. any debate on this is useless, since a god
needs to be proven - First.
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